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BallstriKer

When is Toyota going to wake up???

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It needs to be said. Toyota's been a joke for a decade or two now when it comes to performance cars. What's the last epic and affordable motor they manufactured on their own? Quite possibly the 2zzge and that was 15 years ago, definitely not perfect and a joint effort with another company, i.e. Yamaha. Anyways, I feel like Toyota's been losing the plot and it makes me sad so I wrote this letter.

 

Dear Toyota,

 

You really are a joke these days when it comes to performance cars, and that's coming from a long term fan. Everybody knows and says the GT86 seriously needs more power, but you won't listen. This is reflected in the sales figures, which really is not surprising when the GT86 is losing to the MX5, the Fiesta and Focus ST, the Clio and Megane RS, the Golf GTI, the Mini Cooper S JCW, Subaru's and what-have-you both on the track and in the real world these days!

 

You're really disappointing me, Toyota. When Mazda is investing some serious money, time and effort to bring a better than ever Miata and Mazda 3 MPS and a possible Mazda 2 MPS, when Ford really upped their game with the seriously fun Fiesta, the superbly powered Focus ST and now the Focus RS, when Renault has been working hard on bringing us the Clio RS and one of the best FWD hot hatch of all time in the Megane RS, when Honda's decided to go absolutely bonkers and bring back the Civic Type R with a screaming turbocharged VTEC engine, when VAG has made the Golf GTi better than ever and offers plenty to chose from in the Cupra/vRS range too, heck even Subaru's doing a pretty decent job with the WRX and STI these days, what has Toyota been up to really??? I mean even the GT86 is essentially a rebadged Subaru and the much anticipated S-FR will have a BMW powerplant!!!! The biggest car manufacturer on the planet can't even develop a sports car on their own!!! Come on, wake the f*** up Toyota and listen to your fans!!!!

 

To make matters worse, Toyota's legendary reliability index these days is not what it used to be anymore and with the exception of Lexus, other Japanese brands such as Mazda and Honda now enjoy a better brand perception from end-customers, even more so when it comes to car enthusiasts and petrolheads.

 

Let me just add that yes, Camry's, Corolla's and Land Cruiser's will continue to bring the cash home for Toyota, and yes, pouring money into the required R&D to develop a sports car that will only account for a fraction of their market share might seem totally unreasonable. BUT market share is not everything. The executives at Toyota seem to have forgotten what brand perception is, and Toyota of all car manufacturers should never forget what it is, as they built their brand and their huge fanbase on the perception of quality, reliability, toughness and ruggedness of their cars and most notably the Land Cruiser back in the 70s and 80s. Did it make financial sense to develop the Supra, the Celica GT4 All-trac or the AE86 which all are now classic drivers cars? Probably not but car enthusiasts respected Toyota for coming up with those sports cars, fans of the brand and haters alike.

 

The development of an affordable sports car really goes a long way when it comes to improving brand perception. Ask Mazda, Honda, Ford or Renault what the Miata, Mazda 3 MPS, Civic Type R, Clio/Megane RS, Fiesta/Focus ST and RS have done for them. It's an investment and even though it might not seem to make the most financial sense, in the end it does make a lot of sense. The kind of sense the executives at Toyota seem to be immensely lacking unfortunately. The worst kind of brands are those that do not listen to their fans and customers, and of all the car manufacturers, Toyota's been a champ at playing deaf for over a decade or two now. Wake the f*** up Toyota!!

 

Sincerely,

 

A concerned fan

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Bringing back the supra though aren't they? That won't be an affordable sports car but it should do something positive for the brand. They are surely missing out by not having a hot hatch to rival the cars you've mentioned though so I do agree with you.

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Yep. Deffo need a proper hot auris and/or yaris.. A new mr2 would be pretty easy and safe option for them to make. Don't have to be mega fast, just small, Mid engined and have 2 seats.

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Bringing back the supra though aren't they? That won't be an affordable sports car but it should do something positive for the brand. They are surely missing out by not having a hot hatch to rival the cars you've mentioned though so I do agree with you.

 

Yes but the next Supra, just like the GT86, is developed through a joint venture with another car manufacturer, i.e. BMW. It will essentially be a rebadged BMW Z4 with much of the powerplant coming from Germany...

 

And yes, the Supra will be out of reach for most people. A properly thought through hot hatch is what they need. I mean they kept making them till the early 00's and just stopped altogether as soon as they got to Number 1 in the world. They also ditched the Celica, the MR and the Supra...

 

Anyways, my point is all those other car manufacturers keep bringing excitement to their fans with every press release... I haven't felt like that about Toyota for a long time now. Don't get me wrong, I love my CTS and it is IMHO a superbly brillant car for what it is. But I'm talking about brand new cars here, and Toyota really seem to have lost the plot in this regard.

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Yep. Deffo need a proper hot auris and/or yaris.. A new mr2 would be pretty easy and safe option for them to make. Don't have to be mega fast, just small, Mid engined and have 2 seats.

 

That's exactly my point! They have the GT86 platform and experience and can definitely go from there to develop a new MR or a new Celica. They also have the new DI Turbo 4 which they could use to transform the Corolla/Auris into a hot hatch... But they're doing none of that and instead partnering with other car manufacturers left, right and center...

 

Th GT86 really was a nice and bold concept when it came out and received all the hurrah it deserved. But the competition has come a long way since and now with the MX5 that's just been released, Mazda seems to hint that they're doing it better. In the meantime, the Fiesta ST, Clio RS and other more affordable hot hatches seem to be more powerful and as much or more fun...

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The new mx5 looks super mean I do like it a lot.

 

Tbf though most new cars are more than I could stomach to pay. You'd get a nice r32 gtr for about £11k. Which is about as much as a new Vauxhall corsa lol.

 

I think the day of the classics you look up to are well and truly over for many reasons. I feel my time and money are better invested in keeping old cars I truly like going. Even though I've replaced a LOT of my aw11 and I have to weld the tits off it this weekend, financially it's still much less than an annual service plan on a new car, and it doesn't depreciate, and it doesn't get recalled for a new flux capacitor or something too high tech for me to comprehend. I have classic problems, rust and leaky t tops to contend with. Nackered Bushes and hinges, a real spanner fest.. All of which nets me a car that I adore driving every day that will only go up in value at the end.

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And as much as I love mine, the CTS wasn't really a hot hatch. It's more an all rounder (which is sort of why I own one) with not so much appeal to people wanting a proper hot hatch.

 

I didn't know that much about the new supra but I see your point if that's the case.

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Gt86 has sold well for a sports coupe. The whole point of it was to keep costs down and build a base for aftermarket companys to get more power out of them - just like the original ae86.

 

The supra and celica will be making a come back in the next couple of years too.

 

Performance cars cater for 5% of the total market. They dont sell enough to make decent money off them, hense most manufactures not having such an extensive line up.

 

End of the day, performance cars arent where the money is.

 

Ive started to think toyota do everything half assed when they do eventually make a performance car anyway. The whole 2zz is testiment to that.

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The new mx5 looks super mean I do like it a lot.

 

 

Tbf though most new cars are more than I could stomach to pay. You'd get a nice r32 gtr for about £11k. Which is about as much as a new Vauxhall corsa lol.

 

 

I think the day of the classics you look up to are well and truly over for many reasons. I feel my time and money are better invested in keeping old cars I truly like going. Even though I've replaced a LOT of my aw11 and I have to weld the tits off it this weekend, financially it's still much less than an annual service plan on a new car, and it doesn't depreciate, and it doesn't get recalled for a new flux capacitor or something too high tech for me to comprehend. I have classic problems, rust and leaky t tops to contend with. Nackered Bushes and hinges, a real spanner fest.. All of which nets me a car that I adore driving every day that will only go up in value at the end.

 

I can see where you're coming from Adam, and to be honest most car enthusiasts would probably fancy owning and daily-driving a classic driver's car like you.

 

I couldn't afford a brand new sports car myself but that's what the used market is for. In a few years time all those turbo hot hatches will become affordable and quite frankly I wouldn't mind owning one. It would even be better if it were a Toyota.

 

Truth be told all those brands I've mentionned in my OP are much more exciting than Toyota these days and there lies my gripe.

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And as much as I love mine, the CTS wasn't really a hot hatch. It's more an all rounder (which is sort of why I own one) with not so much appeal to people wanting a proper hot hatch.

 

I didn't know that much about the new supra but I see your point if that's the case.

 

Same here Craig. The CTS is not aimed at people looking for a proper hot hatch. But if you're looking for a comfortable, well-made, well-specced, reliable, low running cost car with a sporty character then it's a really decent car. I love mine and I'm not ragging the tits off it everyday. Still gives me heaps of fun when I need it and a big smile on my face everyday. So in this regard, I'd say it's a lot for the money I've paid for it.

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Gt86 has sold well for a sports coupe. The whole point of it was to keep costs down and build a base for aftermarket companys to get more power out of them - just like the original ae86.

 

 

The supra and celica will be making a come back in the next couple of years too.

 

 

Performance cars cater for 5% of the total market. They dont sell enough to make decent money off them, hense most manufactures not having such an extensive line up.

 

 

End of the day, performance cars arent where the money is.

 

 

Ive started to think toyota do everything half assed when they do eventually make a performance car anyway. The whole 2zz is testiment to that.

 

That's true, they could have done a much better job with the 2zz and sometimes I catch myself wondering why they didn't go the extra mile and make it a 2.0 or a f/i engine from the factory. It would have been truly epic that way. But as above, the CTS is still a damn good car for what it is, if you're prepared to accept its shortcomings and not consider it a pure hot hatch.

 

As I explained in my OP, yes performance cars are not where the money is at and it seldom makes any financial sense to pour enormous amounts of money into the necessary R&D to develop them. But they help tremendously with brand perception and Toyota could definitely do with some of that right now.

 

I've read an interview with one of the top exec from Dodge where he said, of course the development of the Hellcat engine barely made financial sense, and of course Hellcat sales are absolutely insignificant, but it was all worth it in the end because of the image it gave Dodge and how it boosted their sales all accross the lineup. So that's what I'm talking about here. Brand perception and recognition. The same goes for Honda, Renault, Ford, Mazda, Nissan with the epic GTR, etc. with their respective performance divisions.

 

As for the GT86, yes when it came out it definitely execeeded all their sales forecasts. But other makes have upped their game and it now lives in the shadow of more affordable cars that are as much fun and that perform better. Sales figures for the GT86/BRZ/FRS have dipped considerably for a good while now. The MX5, with a less powerful engine, is quicker and more enjoyable to drive, and the Fiesta ST is often picked as a better proposition in reviews, thanks to their tuning potential and a large aftermarket offering, just to name a few. And yes the GT86 is tuning-friendly and the aftermaket scene developed quite rapidly, but at the end of the day it's a N/A car made for N/A reliability. So if you're going to spend $5,000+ on a F/I kit after investing south of $30,000 in a new car because it should've come like that from the factory, I wouldn't necessarily call that very smart.

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That's true, they could have done a much better job with the 2zz and sometimes I catch myself wondering why they didn't go the extra mile and make it a 2.0 or a f/i engine from the factory.

 

They did make a FI 2zz. It was the compressor and its equally as ****e.

 

 

As I explained in my OP, yes performance cars are not where the money is at and it seldom makes any financial sense to pour enormous amounts of money into the necessary R&D to develop them. But they help tremendously with brand perception and Toyota could definitely do with some of that right now.

 

.

Um not at all. 95% of the car market dont give two tosses about how fast something is. All normal people care about is its MPG and reliability.

 

Only us 5% petrol heads actually care about performance. Mrs jones whos aged 55 dont care how quick itll get her to the stops too.

 

 

 

As for the GT86, yes when it came out it definitely execeeded all their sales forecasts. But other makes have upped their game and it now lives in the shadow of more affordable cars that are as much fun and that perform better. Sales figures for the GT86/BRZ/FRS have dipped considerably for a good while now. The MX5, with a less powerful engine, is quicker and more enjoyable to drive, and the Fiesta ST is often picked as a better proposition in reviews, thanks to their tuning potential and a large aftermarket offering, just to name a few. And yes the GT86 is tuning-friendly and the aftermaket scene developed quite rapidly, but at the end of the day it's a N/A car made for N/A reliability. So if you're going to spend $5,000+ on a F/I kit after investing south of $30,000 in a new car because it should've come like that from the factory, I wouldn't necessarily call that very smart.

£30k for a 330bhp rwd proper handeling coupe is a great prospect in my eyes. Will take a 45-50k porshe to get even close to one.

 

Plenty gt86s have run over 100k miles boosted and still in one piece ;)

 

 

Gone are the days where performance cars sold road versions. The 90s was the period where if you won on sunday you sold on monday and most manufactures have seen this.

 

Performance cars dont do anything for brand image when your client base isnt interested in them. Toyota hasnt had one in 15 years and the firms stronger than ever.

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They did make a FI 2zz. It was the compressor and its equally as ****e.

 

 

They bolted a supercharger on an otherwise stock 2zz for a very limited run. That's hardly a definition for mass produced F/I engine from the factory now is it? 

 

 

Um not at all. 95% of the car market dont give two tosses about how fast something is. All normal people care about is its MPG and reliability.

 

Only us 5% petrol heads actually care about performance. Mrs jones whos aged 55 dont care how quick itll get her to the stops too.

 

 

I like how you conveniently left out the part where I talk about what the exec from Dodge said the Hellcat did for the brand. Yes brand perception is important. And yes, all those performance divisions I mentioned make those marques appear more exciting to the eyes of the general public even if sales of performance vehicles only represent a very small fraction of total sales. Otherwise none of them would build hot hatches and performance cars no more would they? 

 

I won't argue about Mrs Jones, bless her, whoever she is, because that is most probably true. Normal people care about MPG and reliability? Toyota is not even number 1 anymore as far as reliability is concerned (excluding Lexus) and they certainly don't get the best MPG. Heck, Mazda ranks higher as far as reliability is concerned in many markets and, the Skyactive engine lineup is proven to give superb real life MPG, AND they are perceived as a more exciting, fun and innovating brand. 

 

But you're fooling yourself if you think brand perception is not important. Toyota itself built its brand around a few epic cars back in the 70s and developed a reputation for making really well made, very capable and very reliable cars. To this day, they still enjoy some of that aura and that's how they sell so much because let's face it, after becoming number 1 in the world, they left the risky innovations (small displacement turbo, direct injection, etc.) to other brands and preferred to multiply cross-plaftorm partnerships with other brands to further reduce risks and costs. How long is that going to last? 

 

 

£30k for a 330bhp rwd proper handeling coupe is a great prospect in my eyes. Will take a 45-50k porshe to get even close to one.

 

Plenty gt86s have run over 100k miles boosted and still in one piece  ;)

 

This is actually funny. Yes the FA20, just like the 2zz, appears to be boost friendly in spite of the high compression ratio. Still doesn't mean it was conceived with boost in mind, because it wasn't! They've only been around for a few years so it's impossible to predict how long-term reliability is affected. But me personally, I'd take a car that was engineered to take boost from the factory any day of the week and enjoy a full manufacturer's warranty, especially if I were to buy a brand new car. 

 

 

Gone are the days where performance cars sold road versions. The 90s was the period where if you won on sunday you sold on monday and most manufactures have seen this.

 

Performance cars dont do anything for brand image when your client base isnt interested in them. Toyota hasnt had one in 15 years and the firms stronger than ever.

 

 

As above, BUT FOR HOW LONG? 

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I cant be arsed to reply to a very petrol head rose tinted set of glasses you have on tbh mate. The fact are there to why they havent made anything special. Other manufactures do because they have motorsport devisions that have continued to this day - so have guys in their firm pushing for this sort of stuff to be produced.

 

 

People buy vag **** thinking its reliable. They havent been for the last 5-7 years.

 

The last interesting fast cars toyota as a brand made were the gt4 and supra. Everything since then has been a half assed attempt tbh.

 

The gt86 always had boost as a possibility through its whole conception. You think toyota and subaru would have been stupid not to look at it - these things are considered before anythings even manufactured. I suspect well see a factory boosted one before the models discontinued. As for the compressor not being FI - toyota clearly didnt feel the need to change the compression ratio. Boost and high compression is the way forward these days.

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[quote name="Steven252" post="153079" timestamp="1445985866"

 

People buy vag **** thinking its reliable. They havent been for the last 5-7 years.

 

Amen. I thought I was alone in that thought.

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Toyota and Yamaha been in the same bed for probably longer than you think.

As for taking their eye off the ball, many have beaten me to it. They are looking at the bulk market, making cars that 90% of the population want.

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I cant be arsed to reply to a very petrol head rose tinted set of glasses you have on tbh mate. The fact are there to why they havent made anything special. Other manufactures do because they have motorsport devisions that have continued to this day - so have guys in their firm pushing for this sort of stuff to be produced.

 

 

 

People buy vag **** thinking its reliable. They havent been for the last 5-7 years.

 

 

The last interesting fast cars toyota as a brand made were the gt4 and supra. Everything since then has been a half assed attempt tbh.

 

 

The gt86 always had boost as a possibility through its whole conception. You think toyota and subaru would have been stupid not to look at it - these things are considered before anythings even manufactured. I suspect well see a factory boosted one before the models discontinued. As for the compressor not being FI - toyota clearly didnt feel the need to change the compression ratio. Boost and high compression is the way forward these days.

 

It's not pink tinted glasses I have on mate but it doesn't take a marketing genius to figure those things out. Can't be arse to discuss this further with you either as you clearly don't understand a thing when it comes to modern day car marketing. The world does not end at your borders I hope you do realize that.

 

Supercharging a high CR engine was an half arsed attempt at cutting cost 10 years ago, not the way forward. Clearly if they wanted to make a F/I engine they would have changed the CR and internals before it left the factory! It's not like they didn't when they made the 4agze, 4efte and 3sgte before that which ALL have some kind of N/A direct counterparts.

 

If you think the FA20 was conceived with boost in mind then why didn't it come with forged internals from the factory? If it did then yes, it'll be clear to me that they didn't factory turbocharge it for financial or whatever reasons. Otherwise that's just clutching at straws and hoping for the best. A boost-friendly engine is absolutely different than an engine/drivetrain/transmission that's been engineered from the factory to be reliable with boost for all the duration of its life, simple as.

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If it doesnt take a genious to figure it out, why has toyota not done that the last 15 years and become a bigger more profitable company than it was with all its performance line up back then? Because the markets changed. We're not i the 90s anymore.

 

LOL low compression turbos was again the 90s technology mate. High compression with boost is what every boosted car runs these days. Toyota put a supercharger running no intercooler with high iats on a 11.5:1 compression high reving engine and it runs fine. Why fix something that isnt broke, it didnt need low compression. Dont forget the comps still had a full factory warrenty which means they werent worried about anything going wrong. most modern turbos today are running 10:1 compression from factory.

 

I think youll find, very few turbo cars come from factory with forged pistons. The FA20 is clearly boost friendly, you only have to look at the countless turbo/supercharged cars and the amount of tuning companys offering products for them. They wouldnt do so if the thing ****e itself every 4 miles now would they. Toyota/subaru would have designed the FA20 with that in mind as, as ive said, i bet well see a factory boosted model with a kit bolted to it before the model is outed.

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If the compressor was turbocharged they would be a serious cult car

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Nothing wrong with the ogura, just toyota were half assed fitting it.

 

 

The comp would have been a serious cult car if that was the case stew. They missed a massive trick with that but toyota have ****ed every performance car up since the late 90s so its no suprise.

 

Factory E11s sporting WRC kits and 109bhp...

Both the TS and comps running 1.4 calipers...

The MK7 celica in general...

The yaris...

Auris SR being a diesel...

 

Do i need to continue LOL

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If it doesnt take a genious to figure it out, why has toyota not done that the last 15 years and become a bigger more profitable company than it was with all its performance line up back then? Because the markets changed. We're not i the 90s anymore.

 

 

But that's exactly my point mate! They stopped manufacturing performance oriented cars altogether right around the time they became number one. All I'm saying is because everybody's been up and about trying to improve their brand image, it's quite possible - in my humble opinion - that Toyota could be caught short as the global car market catches up. These days, Toyota no longer has as a strong lead with regards to reliability as before, and the car market will eventually catch up with that. 

 

Anyways, I think we'll have to agree to disagree mate, but for me, brand image is everything in modern day car marketing. You only have to look at how Mazda slowly built their brand up over the last 10 years to become the leader in customer satisfaction in many countries nowadays - at the expense of marques like Toyota, mind you. In the meantime, their performance division, Mazdaspeed, came up with some epic cars which I reckon everyone on here knows. Then you also have the example of the Korean twins, which 15 years ago were considered the epitome of flimsiness but nowadays, your Mrs Jones will see the Rafael Nadal ads and the 7 years manufacturer warranty on a Kia or a Hyundai and jump on the bandwagon.

 

I'll stop with the examples as I could go on for days, but let me just add this last one: the Lexus LFA, Lexus's very own supercar. This is the most epic Lexus ever, yet this car actually costs more to build than it retails for. In other words, Lexus is losing money for every one they build. They knew that, yet they went ahead and gifted the world this epic car. So why did they manufacture such a car when it clearly didn't make any financial sense I hear you ask? Because of brand image that's why. With the LFA, Lexus was playing in Ferrari's and McLaren's backyard. Could it be a sustainable niche market for Lexus? Certainly not. But what it did for them is that it helped them promote their brand (and test innovations). 

 

LOL low compression turbos was again the 90s technology mate. High compression with boost is what every boosted car runs these days. Toyota put a supercharger running no intercooler with high iats on a 11.5:1 compression high reving engine and it runs fine. Why fix something that isnt broke, it didnt need low compression. Dont forget the comps still had a full factory warrenty which means they werent worried about anything going wrong. most modern turbos today are running 10:1 compression from factory.

 

But you said yourself that the Comp was s***e. They'd have done a much better job of it if they truly intended to make a proper FI engine, and they clearly had the experience with the 4agze, the 4efte, the 3sgte, or the 2jzgte. What they did was they bolted a supercharger with moderate boost and no IC on an otherwise stock engine. Not a properly engineered FI engine in my book, sorry mate, but I think you'll agree as I'm under the impression that most Comp owners - especially you - seem to be disappointed by the performance. And keep in mind the 2zz, in stock or comp form, was an engine that was developed in the late 90's when high reving engines were still the name of the business. Engine technology has come a long way since then and those modern high CR turbocharged engine you're talking about use pieces of technology that were not available at the time the 2zz was developed. But yes you're right in saying that it's the way forward now that they've come up with all those awesome pieces of technology. And 10:1 is still lower than 11.5:1 not matter how you look at it  :p

 

I think youll find, very few turbo cars come from factory with forged pistons. The FA20 is clearly boost friendly, you only have to look at the countless turbo/supercharged cars and the amount of tuning companys offering products for them. They wouldnt do so if the thing ****e itself every 4 miles now would they. Toyota/subaru would have designed the FA20 with that in mind as, as ive said, i bet well see a factory boosted model with a kit bolted to it before the model is outed.

 

There's really nothing I'd like to see more than a factory boosted GT86 mate, believe you me!!! The whole point of the OP was basically to say: "Hey Toyota, listen to your fans and your customers. We want more power, we've been saying that all along. It would make the car absolutely epic, please listen to us!!" I've been following the GT86/BRZ scene for a long time mate and there's no clear indication Toyobaru will ever come up with a factory boosted GT86/BRZ. There've been rumours yes, but they're that, just rumours. As for factory FI vs aftermarket FI, we'll have to agree to disagree again. The oldest GT86s are barely 3 years old now. Even if the engine is good enough for moderate boost, which it is, it doesn't mean, in my opinion, that it was engineered with boost in mind. And let's not forget about the drivetrain, the gearbox, etc.

 

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If the compressor was turbocharged they would be a serious cult car

 

 

Nothing wrong with the ogura, just toyota were half assed fitting it.

 

 

The comp would have been a serious cult car if that was the case stew. They missed a massive trick with that but toyota have ****ed every performance car up since the late 90s so its no suprise.

 

Factory E11s sporting WRC kits and 109bhp...

Both the TS and comps running 1.4 calipers...

The MK7 celica in general...

The yaris...

Auris SR being a diesel...

 

Do i need to continue LOL

 

We all agree on this one fellas. And yes Steven we agree, they could have made such a better job it's baffling why they didn't when clearly they had the ressources and the experience.

 

This is what I'm trying to convey through the OP! I - as a car enthusiast - wants Toyota to be great again, and I - as a customer -  am afraid they're losing the plot as an automaker.  

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Blame the EU emission laws and road tax, that plus the fact that all people seem to care about is MPG and smart phone tech in their cars now, People at work look at me like i'm strange when i tell them my Impreza doesn't have a stereo or air con in it. Its no wonder most manufacturers have steered away from expensive performance cars. Toyota and Subaru should have just supercharged the BRZ/GT86.

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Comps still faster than a tsport. Fact. They didnt need to add a ic or anything, bolting it on was all it required to make the car faster and for not much more money on the base price.

 

The compression ratio isnt the problem with the compressors. Never has been. Not sure why you think it is. Toyota cocked up on most of their SC cars even with the 4agze.

 

Do not even consider a roots SC car to be even remotely comparable to a turbo. There compketely different and worlds apart when it comes from tuning. So ill ignore the 3sgte/1jz/4efte part.

 

 

10:1 is considered high compression. Most turbo motors before the new age stuff were 7-8:1

 

And over the next 5year i can put my money on most turbo cars being above 11.5:1 compression ratio. It just makes sense to be up there.

 

So youve not seen or followed all the demo gt86 cars that have been trashed up the strip and track constantly? The oil port for the turbo is blanked off on a FA20 and just requires the pump installing. If they didnt intend it to be boosted, why is it there?

 

Dave - TTE have been working on a SC kit for a while. They just havent released it yet which im dumb founded by, but it will come.

 

Toyota wont listen to 5% of their market. Theyd be stupid too.

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